Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt said Monday that "the time is right" for him to talk to President Clinton about creating a national monument on 164,000 acres of BLM land in Montezuma and Dolores counties.

"I have not talked to the president about this issue," he told the Montezuma County commissioners by telephone, responding to a question from Chairman Gene Story. "Having said that, I do think the time is right, yes, and I hope I’ll have a chance to raise it with him in the very near future."

The half-hour conversation was the first time Babbitt had spoken directly with the commissioners.

The secretary made it clear that he now sees no option for protecting the numerous Anasazi ruins on the rugged BLM land other than asking Clinton to designate a national monument under the 1906 Antiquities Act.

Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell and Rep. Scott McInnis had sponsored companion bills to make the area into a national conservation area, generally a less-restrictive designation than a national monument.

But Campbell recently suspended action on his bill, effectively dooming it. He cited a lack of local consensus on the legislation, which had been lambasted by property-rights advocates as too restrictive and by environmentalists as not restrictive enough.

Babbitt indicated Monday that the new national monument will be very similar to what the conservation area would have been.

"If we go ahead with the executive-order route, I want to assure all of you that there aren’t any big surprises awaiting," Babbitt told the commissioners. "We have agreed with the concept in Senator Campbell’s bill and if we now go forward on the executive-order track, I think we’re going to get a measure that’s absolutely consistent with all the discussions we’ve had and not any kind of major departure (from that)."

He said, although he knows there is widespread local opposition to the monument, he wants to work with the commission and community to make it work.

"I’d like to spend time on this and see if we can’t get some good relationships going and use this time to do what we can do together," he said.

"I’m not suggesting that I’m ever going to be voted Man of the Year in Montezuma County, but I’m willing to try (to work with you)."

In response to questions from Story, Babbitt addressed several concerns that had been raised by local residents, particularly the Southwest Colorado Landowners Association, which has vocally opposed any new designation.

Babbitt said oil and gas drilling and carbon-dioxide extraction, which provide some 30 percent of the county’s property taxes, definitely would be allowed on the new monument.

"We’ve talked a lot about the carbon-dioxide reserves out there, and I’ve said consistently that any recommendation I make to the president will be consistent with the production and full utilization of that CO2 resource," he said. He added that, while visiting the area in May, he’d toured the Shell facilities and decided "I’d never seen a better-managed gas-production field anywhere in my experience."

He said that CO2 production would be permitted "over the life of the resource, period," and that he saw no problem with the drilling of new CO2 wells.

"I do not," he said. "I’m saying that in front of the local press."

Grazing would likewise be allowed to continue on the national monument, Babbitt promised.

"You can look at the monuments we’ve done already," he said. "I think, in every single one, we’ve had strong language about grazing." However, it must be managed under "a high conservation standard," he said.

The major changes in land management that would be wrought by a national monument, Babbitt said, would be:

• Hard-rock and surface mining would be banned.

• Off-road-vehicle use would be restricted. "We will have strong prescriptions about the need to regulate off-road vehicles," he said, adding that their use in archaeologically rich areas was "a big problem."

• Any sale of the public land would be forbidden. "This land is going to be here to stay — the public land," he said. "(As things stand), my successor could come to Southwest Colorado and sell the whole thing, and I don’t believe that’s in the public interest."

Also in response to questions from the commissioners, Babbitt promised that owners of inholdings would retain their historic rights of access.

"We would have in a proclamation a provision related to valid existing rights," he said. "That absolutely covers access into these parcels."

He also said there were no plans to try to persuade or coerce owners into selling their inholdings.

"In my view, there isn’t any real reason to want to be buying these inholdings in this generation or the foreseeable future," he said. However, in a generation or two, if the owners’ descendants want to "build a retirement home with one-acre lots," there might be talk about buying the property.

However, Babbitt stated, "This secretary has no interest in buying any of that land."

There also are no plans for a "buffer zone" around the monument, he said. "We’re not proposing any sort of language about land outside the boundaries — none, period," he said.

He said the boundaries of the proposed conservation area as shown in a BLM map would be the boundaries of the monument.

"I can’t imagine extending it any more because there isn’t any more BLM land out there," except a few scattered outliers, he said.

Story asked whether it might be possible for the county to work on obtaining funds to protect the ruins without any new designation, but Babbitt said no. The Senate will be in session for fewer than 30 days between now and November, he said, and there is no time to work on other options.

He said he hoped there might be time to get some funds for the monument into the current budget.

County federal-lands coordinator Mike Preston asked whether an advisory committee formed to oversee the creation of the monument would have to sunset, or whether it could remain in place.

"I’m not sure I can guarantee that," Babbitt said. But he added that, if such a committee had a solid start, "nobody is going to take it away from you if you use it vigorously" and if the management plan incorporates an advisory committee into its provisions.

Babbitt said it was possible Clinton might say no to his monument proposal, "but he hasn’t turned me down yet."

But he promised the commissioners they would "hear from me directly as we go along."